Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 120

01/22/2008 01:30 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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01:34:35 PM Start
01:34:47 PM State Transportation Improvement Program
02:36:12 PM Alaska Marine Highway Scheduling
03:46:53 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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+ State Transportation Improvement TELECONFERENCED
Program 101
Alaska Marine Highway System Scheduling
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                        January 22, 2008                                                                                        
                           1:34 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kyle Johansen, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Anna Fairclough                                                                                                  
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Andrea Doll                                                                                                      
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION BY DOT/PF ON STATE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PLAN                                                                 
(STIP);                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY SYSTEM (AMHS) SCHEDULING                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JEFF OTTESEN, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Program Development                                                                                                 
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Presented  and answered  questions on  the                                                             
STIP plan.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HARDY, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                               
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Presented  and answered  questions on  the                                                             
Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KYLE JOHANSEN  called  the  House Transportation  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:34:35  PM.    Representatives                                                             
Neuman,   Fairclough,  Johnson,   Keller,  Doogan,   Salmon,  and                                                               
Johansen  were present  at the  call to  order.   Representatives                                                               
Doll, LeDoux, Kerttula, and Wilson were also in attendance.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
^State Transportation Improvement Program                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:34:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN announced that the  announced that the first order                                                               
of   business   would   be  the   presentation   of   the   State                                                               
Transportation  Improvement Plan  (STIP)  and  the Alaska  Marine                                                               
Highway System Scheduling.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:35:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH asked for  a status report on questions                                                               
generated from the January 17, 2008, committee meeting.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN responded  that the  questions were  forwarded to                                                               
the  commissioner of  the Department  of Transportation  & Public                                                               
Facilities (DOT&PF) yesterday at 2:30 p.m.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:36:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFF   OTTESEN,  Director,   Division  of   Program  Development,                                                               
Department  of  Transportation   &  Public  Facilities  (DOT&PF),                                                               
advised  that he  oversees  the  STIP, and  in  that capacity  is                                                               
responsible for managing  and producing the STIP.   He offered to                                                               
expand  his  presentation, which  is  included  in the  committee                                                               
packet with any level of detail the committee desires.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:37:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN  noted  that his  constituents  have  experienced                                                               
frustration with the STIP's complexity,  but he acknowledged that                                                               
DOT&PF must react to constantly  changing federal regulations and                                                               
rules.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:37:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  offered an  overarching comment that  the STIP  is a                                                               
technical  program and  that  the stability  of  the program  has                                                               
suffered due to  changes at the federal level.   He outlined four                                                               
topics of discussion,  1) General Overview/Federal Transportation                                                               
Funding  Process and  Rules; 2)   SHAKWAK  Funding; 3)   How  the                                                               
Federal  Funding Process  Relates to  State Funding;  and 4)  The                                                               
State STIP/the STIP Amendment Process.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:38:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked for an explanation of SHAKWAK.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  responded that  SHAKWAK is a  term for  a geological                                                               
trench feature  in the Yukon,  and that Alaska runs  through this                                                               
feature.   SHAKWAK is  funded by  two programs:   one is  a long-                                                               
standing  program, which  has been  used  to build  parts of  the                                                               
highway system  in the Yukon Territory  and a small piece  of the                                                               
system in British  Columbia [Canada], which has  been funded with                                                               
federal highway dollars for over 30  years; the second use of the                                                               
term is  for a more recent  provision in federal law  that allows                                                               
DOT&PF to  create a  special category of  funding for  the Alaska                                                               
Marine  Highway  System  (AMHS),  the Haines  Highway,  and  more                                                               
recently roads that lead to ferry terminals.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:39:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN, in response to  a question by Representative Doogan,                                                               
stated that the  STIP is a legal requirement that  the state must                                                               
follow to be eligible for federal dollars.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  referred  to  page   2  of  his  overview  labeled,                                                               
"DOT&PF's   General   Overview/Federal   Transportation   Funding                                                               
Process  and  Rules",  and explained  that  the  federal  highway                                                               
program began in 1916 and is a  body of law that has been amended                                                               
many  times, with  the  last amendment  being  the federal  Safe,                                                               
Accountable, Flexible and Efficient  Transportation Equity Act of                                                               
2004  (SAFETEA-LU).   He stated  that, to  give the  committee an                                                               
idea of  the complexity of the  amendment, it was 1,700  pages in                                                               
length.   The federal  highway program  consists of  many general                                                               
rules, but  also has  many exceptions with  nuances.   He offered                                                               
that  although he  has 12  years of  experience with  the federal                                                               
rules,  the department  has lost  through retirement,  two people                                                               
with   in-depth  knowledge   of   the  federal   process.     The                                                               
transportation  planning process  is  required for  the state  to                                                               
access funds,  is codified in the  U.S. code in Sections  134 and                                                               
135,  and is  also codified  in regulation.   The  transportation                                                               
planning  process must  be  adhered to  for  all federal  highway                                                               
funds  Alaska receives,  as well  as the  federal transit  funds,                                                               
which, he noted, have been increased  in the past few years.  The                                                               
mandate for a  planning process goes back to 1934.   The planning                                                               
process is more complex since  rules have been added that require                                                               
the state to produce a long-range  plan, as well as a short-range                                                               
spending   plan  in   accordance   with   the  long-range   plan.                                                               
Additionally, there  are related  requirements and  documents the                                                               
state must produce, such as:   data on the condition of roadways,                                                               
bridges, and pavement;  and an inventory of  roads, including the                                                               
width, and functional classification,  for example, whether it is                                                               
a local road  or arterial road.   The first duty of  DOT&PF is to                                                               
collect  this  data  which  is then  delivered  annually  to  the                                                               
Federal  Highway   Administration  (FHWA)  prior  to   the  state                                                               
receiving any federal funding.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  stated that DOT&PF  is required to have  an outreach                                                               
process and  must consult  with other  local, state,  and federal                                                               
tribal agencies.   DOT&PF produces  the STIP under  strict fiscal                                                               
discipline and  is required  to split the  duties.   Although the                                                               
state  highway agency,  as  it  is referred  to  in  the act,  is                                                               
responsible for many  of the duties, some duties  are shared with                                                               
the  large Metropolitan  Planning  Organizations  (MPOs) in  each                                                               
state.    Alaska has  two  MPOs:    the greater  Fairbanks  area,                                                               
including  the  Fairbanks  North  Star Borough  (FNSB),  and  the                                                               
Municipality  of  Anchorage (MOA).    The  MPOS are  required  to                                                               
produce  their  own  spending plans,  Transportation  Improvement                                                               
Programs  (TIPs), so  the decision  making authority  is actually                                                               
held by the MPOs  and not by the state.   Therefore, the MPOS act                                                               
almost like separate entities within the state.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:45:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH asked  how soon  the Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Borough  (Mat-Su)   would  reach   the  density   and  population                                                               
necessary to form its own MPO.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  related  that   he  expects  the  Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Borough  to reach  population density  in  the 2010  census.   It                                                               
takes about  two years for  that process to be  documented, which                                                               
occurs before  an MPO would be  mandated.  He suggested  that the                                                               
process would be complete in approximately 2012.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:46:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  clarified that to reach  MPO status an                                                               
area must  have a population  density of 50,000 and  a population                                                               
density  per square  mile.    She asked  the  percentage of  FHWA                                                               
funding that  is directed to MPOs,  and how that funding  will be                                                               
impacted by the addition of the proposed Mat-Su MPO.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded  that one of the exceptions in  law is that                                                               
all other states, except Hawaii and  Alaska, use a formula set in                                                               
law to  determine the funding  allowable for MPOs.   One category                                                               
is set at 62 percent, and the  formula is based on a strict state                                                               
population proportion so the end  result is that the proposed new                                                               
MPO would receive 10 percent of  the 62 percent, or a little more                                                               
than 6  percent of that  one category  of funding.   Since Alaska                                                               
was not included  in the formula and no  alterative was provided,                                                               
DOT&PF developed a formula by  regulation in 2002 and delivers to                                                               
the  MPOs approximately  twice  as much  funding  as the  federal                                                               
formula would.   He stated,  in response  to a question,  that by                                                               
subtracting  out  the  MPO funding  allotted  for  Fairbanks  and                                                               
Anchorage, the proposed Mat-Su Borough  MPO would get a sliver of                                                               
the remaining funding based on the  state formula.  He noted that                                                               
the  state  formula  takes  into account  factors,  such  as  the                                                               
population, the  number of miles  of road, and the  safety record                                                               
on those roads.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:48:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  related his  understanding that  the parts                                                               
of the  STIP that  pertain to the  Municipality of  Anchorage MPO                                                               
stem   from  the   Anchorage  Metropolitan   Area  Transportation                                                               
Solutions (AMATS) process rather than from the state process.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN noted  his agreement,  but  pointed out  that a  few                                                               
categories of funding  spent within Anchorage are  from the state                                                               
process.    The  national  highway  system  routes  are  prepared                                                               
cooperatively with  MOA.  The  MOA identifies the routes  and the                                                               
state decides  the funding,  although some  additional categories                                                               
like  safety   and  bridge  funding  still   remain  under  state                                                               
discretion.   The bulk  of the  program is  decided by  the AMATS                                                               
policy board  and the state's  job is essentially to  approve the                                                               
AMATS plan  as written because the  state does not have  any veto                                                               
power over the plan.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:49:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked  if  the  process  for  funding  is                                                               
limited to the construction portion of projects.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  explained that  the process is  not limited  just to                                                               
construction  purposes because  funding  could also  be used  for                                                               
buses  and for  some operational  functions.   He stated  that he                                                               
chooses not to  characterize it as limited  to construction since                                                               
funding could  be used for  planning also.  He  acknowledged that                                                               
the MOA  decides what  goes into the  AMATS plan,  and reiterated                                                               
that the AMATS plan is not subject to veto by the state.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:49:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN, referring  to the STIP and the  2030 plan, explained                                                               
that both are  statewide multi-modal plans that must  cover a 20-                                                               
year horizon, and  the eight factors contained in  the 2030 plan.                                                               
Both   plans   are   prepared  in   consultation   with   several                                                               
organizations.   Mr.  Ottesen explained  that the  process states                                                               
use  to  prepare  these  transportation   plans  falls  into  two                                                               
approaches, either to prepare a  single plan for the entire state                                                               
or to use  a tiered plan with top-level policy  coupled with more                                                               
detailed plans  at the regional  level and/or system  plan level.                                                               
In  Alaska, the  state owns  40 percent  of the  road system  and                                                               
there is  a complex network  of transportation  systems including                                                               
ferries, aviation,  and harbors.   About a  third of  the states,                                                               
including Alaska, have used a  tiered approach since 1993, such a                                                               
strategic plan approach.   He opined that the  tiered approach is                                                               
the  best approach  for Alaska.   The  concept of  an overarching                                                               
plan  with more  detailed plans  is codified  in state  law.   He                                                               
speculated that there  are at least 15-20  subordinate plans that                                                               
help  the  department  flesh  out   the  long-range  plan,  which                                                               
includes the details for aviation,  AMHS, corridors, regions, and                                                               
the use of technology.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:53:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  whether the  subordinate plans  are                                                               
available.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded that all  the plans are located on DOT&PF's                                                               
web site.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN gave  an overview of the federal  STIP process, which                                                               
all 50 states have to produce  for a four-year horizon.  He noted                                                               
that  prior to  SAFETEA-LU  the STIP  had  required a  three-year                                                               
horizon.   A letter is  jointly signed  and the STIP  is approved                                                               
before  DOT&PF can  access federal  funds.   He offered  that the                                                               
state can't  work on  projects that are  not consistent  with its                                                               
long-range plan.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:54:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  inquired as  to who approves  the STIP                                                               
plan at the state level.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN   responded  that  duty   is  delegated   to  DOT&PF                                                               
commissioner.    The  plan  is  then  forwarded  to  two  federal                                                               
agencies for approval, along with a transmittal letter.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH   asked  whether   it  is   a  federal                                                               
requirement  that the  STIP approval  process stay  internal with                                                               
the administration or do some states use a legislative process.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  answered  that  a  handful  of  state  legislatures                                                               
approve  the STIP,  but in  the majority  of states  the approval                                                               
process  is done  by the  executive branch.   He  added that  the                                                               
federal law  itself specifies the  state highway agency  which is                                                               
the state department of transportation in most states.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH then  asked whether  state regulations                                                               
require  that MPOs  pass their  transportation plans  through the                                                               
local assembly.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:56:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded  no, the approval is not  mandated by state                                                               
regulation  and  each MPO  follows  its  own process,  which,  he                                                               
opined, is  a remarkably complex and  diverse process nationwide.                                                               
The STIP is required to  identify the scope, physical boundaries,                                                               
schedule,  cost, and  funding types  of all  projects.   The STIP                                                               
undergoes   federal  review   and   approval   with  the   fiscal                                                               
constraints  and requirements  increasingly more  vigorous.   The                                                               
STIP is constrained  by year and by phase of  work.  For example,                                                               
phases  include  design  and  environmental  work,  right-of-way,                                                               
moving utilities, and construction.   All phases must be detailed                                                               
and  must  total  the  maximum  number  of  dollars  that  DOT&PF                                                               
estimates is available.   He offered that five or  six years ago,                                                               
the  STIP was  over-programmed  such that  it  often showed  more                                                               
projects than were realistic for  the funding.  More importantly,                                                               
he  noted,  DOT&PF  could  not   deliver  projects  due  to  cost                                                               
increases so the STIP was  unrealistic.  Therefore, DOT&PF is not                                                               
allowed  to spend  beyond the  STIP  program and  must adhere  to                                                               
strict guidelines.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:58:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON  asked  whether DOT&PF  applies  the  same                                                               
rules to the rural roads in smaller communities.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  answered  that in  1995,  DOT&PF  created  criteria                                                               
designed  to  allow  rural  communities  to  compete  with  urban                                                               
communities, except in  Puerto Rico and Alaska  where rural roads                                                               
are eligible for  STIP dollars.  He explained  that the exception                                                               
and the criteria have been  focused on achieving sanitation roads                                                               
to landfill sites  and sewage lagoons to water sites  in order to                                                               
achieve basic sanitation in rural areas.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:59:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN stated  that when DOT&PF veers away  from the STIP                                                               
document and  cannot complete its  projects, it  increases public                                                               
frustration  because the  public doesn't  understand the  process                                                               
taken to determine which projects are funded.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  reminded the committee  that the  STIP used to  be a                                                               
three-year  document   with  a   component  to  project   out  an                                                               
additional three years in order  to give communities a glimpse of                                                               
future projects.   However, the department has  vacillated in its                                                               
view of the value of projecting  projects for six years since the                                                               
trend is  that costs will go  up, additional funding will  not be                                                               
available,  and  projects  slip,  all of  which  adds  to  public                                                               
frustration and  a sense  that the planning  process is  a hollow                                                               
process.   He  opined a  preference for  a four-year  process and                                                               
that anything beyond  that timeframe is simply  too difficult for                                                               
DOT&PF to predict.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:01:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN, referring  to the bottom of page 5  of his overview,                                                               
explained  that  federal  rules  have  become  more  complex  and                                                               
demanding  with about  20 different  funding  types to  consider.                                                               
Funding  sources are  not  just general  funds,  and instead  the                                                               
funding  is  by  category  and  sub-category.    Therefore,  each                                                               
project  must  be evaluated  for  exceptions  to the  eligibility                                                               
rules.   What  has further  complicated the  process is  that new                                                               
regulations, as a result of  SAFTEA-LU, were first public noticed                                                               
as draft  regulations in the summer  of 2006 and were  enacted in                                                               
2007.   He  noted  that he  helped prepare  a  50-page letter  in                                                               
response  to the  regulations, which  outlined concerns  that the                                                               
American   Association  of   State  Highway   and  Transportation                                                               
Official's  (AASHTO) two  committees  had  with the  regulations.                                                               
DOT&PF also  authored a 10-page letter  that highlighted concerns                                                               
that the  AASHTO letter did  not cover.  Other  states, including                                                               
Alaska, have had ongoing concerns  about how the regulations will                                                               
affect and  apply to individual  state programs.  He  offered his                                                               
understanding  that the  feedback from  federal agencies  implies                                                               
that  the   regulations  are  more  flexible   than  states  have                                                               
interpreted  them to  be and  that state  transportation agencies                                                               
need   to  work   through  local   agencies   to  interpret   the                                                               
regulations.  He  opined that the old STIP, prior  to 2007, was a                                                               
much easier document to use than the new STIP.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN,  in  response to  a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Fairclough, advised that AASHTO is  an organization that works on                                                               
behalf of all 50 state transportation agencies.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:04:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  inquired as to  methods that other states  use to                                                               
navigate the complexity of the new regulations.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded that one  difficult challenge for DOT&PF is                                                               
to amend the STIP when there is  a change due to funding or cost.                                                               
Some states  have addressed this  issue by forward  funding their                                                               
federal  programs.   Those  states  produce  projects with  state                                                               
funding  and  then write  the  STIP  for reimbursement  of  those                                                               
projects against  a known  set of costs.   However,  he cautioned                                                               
that the only  way the DOT&PF would  be able to do  this would be                                                               
to forward  fund the STIP  program with  an initial $300  to $400                                                               
million  of general  fund monies.   The  states in  which forward                                                               
funding has been successful are  those states that already have a                                                               
revenue stream from a gas tax or other dedicated funding source.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:06:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   FAIRCLOUGH  asked   if  the   STIP  allows   for                                                               
reimbursement.  She related that  when she served on AMATS, under                                                               
the SAFETEA-LU,  AMATS pre-purchased right-of-way  properties and                                                               
then requested reimbursement for  the advance funded right-of-way                                                               
needed for the project.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  agreed  that  process  could  work.    However,  he                                                               
cautioned  that  when  the state  or  municipality  pre-purchases                                                               
right-of-way, and  thereby indicates  the specific location  of a                                                               
road, the  state runs the  risk that  the FHWA may  determine the                                                               
state pre-decided the  project and did not  follow the prescribed                                                               
AMATS process.   The FHWA may then determine that  the project is                                                               
not eligible for reimbursement.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:07:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH agreed  and reiterated  the importance                                                               
for  the   committee  to  understand   the  risks   involved  for                                                               
reimbursement in  cases in  which the state  does not  follow the                                                               
federal government's continuum and is reimbursed less.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  offered  that  there  are  instances  of  low  risk                                                               
projects,  for example  buying right-of-way  on an  existing road                                                               
when  the goal  is to  widen the  road.   In further  response to                                                               
Representative  Fairclough, Mr.  Ottesen  stated that  SAFETEA-LU                                                               
expires in 21 months, on September 30, 2009.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:08:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN referred  to the  federal  policy shifts,  including                                                               
rescissions.    A  rescission is  essentially  funding  that  the                                                               
federal government  takes back.   Proportional funding  means the                                                               
state  must return  the funding  in the  same ratio  that it  was                                                               
awarded, with  no flexibility.   He  opined that  this constraint                                                               
forces  DOT&PF to  build projects  that  may not  be the  state's                                                               
highest  priority, but  are within  the highest  priority in  the                                                               
particular  funding  category that  fits.    He noted  that  many                                                               
federal mandates  do not include  funding necessary  to implement                                                               
the required changes, such as a  mandate that in 2009 DOT&PF must                                                               
give  the public  "real  time" data  about  weather and  traffic.                                                               
Another mandate is the concept  of "complete streets" which means                                                               
that  when building  a road,  DOT&PF must  provide for  bicycles,                                                               
pedestrians,  and transit  users in  all phases  of the  project.                                                               
DOT&PF is also  required to coordinate its  efforts with wildlife                                                               
agencies.  In fact, DOT&PF  receives some requests for bridges to                                                               
allow wildlife to  cross roadways.  He  highlighted that unfunded                                                               
mandates mean that ultimately DOT&PF will achieve less.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:10:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN,  in response  to  a  question, responded  that  the                                                               
department has  not yet been  provided with details  with respect                                                               
to rural roads and trails or  if there is an exception in federal                                                               
law for those projects.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH  speculated  that in  Alaska  mandates                                                               
could have dire  consequences, such that a  project that provides                                                               
a  corridor for  snowmobile or  four-wheel all  terrain vehicles,                                                               
could be  mandated to provide a  bike trail and a  sidewalk along                                                               
the corridor.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:11:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked  if rescissions are returned  to the general                                                               
fund or whether the funding is redistributed to DOT&PF.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded that the  rescissions thus far have been to                                                               
take  back the  non-cash  portion  of the  project,  which has  a                                                               
consequence, but doesn't necessarily take away funding.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:12:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  referred to the top  of page 6 of  his overview, and                                                               
explained  that  the  new  federal   STIP  rules  are  the  first                                                               
regulation changes in 13 years, since  1993.  He offered that the                                                               
attorney for  AASHTO made  it clear that  most of  the regulation                                                               
changes were  firmly written in  the law and were  preordained in                                                               
the  law, and  are not  at the  discretion of  the FHWA  but were                                                               
regulations Congress mandated.   An amendment takes  a minimum of                                                               
90 days  to process, but  a major amendment  can take up  to five                                                               
months.   Since anything that  changes the cost,  schedule, scope                                                               
of  the project,  or  funding source  can  trigger an  amendment,                                                               
DOT&PF avoids  changes to  projects.   Changes to  projects could                                                               
potentially  halt  construction  or  accrue damages  due  to  the                                                               
delay,  expending millions  of dollars  to solve  a problem  that                                                               
shouldn't happen.   He explained that the  STIP amendment process                                                               
doesn't work  well in  Alaska, where  the construction  season is                                                               
five  months  long, whereas  in  some  other states  construction                                                               
happens almost all year round.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:15:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN asked  whether projects  cancelled  by the  chief                                                               
executive have an impact on the STIP.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded that cancellations,  project delays, or the                                                               
desire to  use funds  elsewhere would result  in an  amendment to                                                               
the STIP.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:16:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN asked  more  specifically  whether the  Ketchikan                                                               
Gravina Island Access Project had been cancelled.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  answered that  there has been  no STIP  amendment as                                                               
Alaska's  STIP is  currently frozen,  pending  completion of  the                                                               
state's long-range  transportation plan.   He explained  that the                                                               
STIP  and the  long-range transportation  plan are  linked.   The                                                               
department is rushing  to finish the long-range  plan because the                                                               
2008 funding cannot be spent and  a STIP amendment cannot be made                                                               
until the long-range transportation plan is completed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH asked  whether  the Ketchikan  Gravina                                                               
Island Access Project was ever included in the STIP.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:17:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded yes, adding  that the federal earmarks have                                                               
to be  shown in the  STIP for  different phases.   However, since                                                               
DOT&PF  lacked full  funding, the  project was  not shown  in the                                                               
2008-2009 STIP for the construction  phase.  Under the STIP rules                                                               
the funding must be identified, he noted.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked whether the STIP  requires DOT&PF to                                                               
list  construction phases  by year.    For example,  if a  multi-                                                               
phased project  had been included in  the STIP he inquired  as to                                                               
what assurance DOT&PF  has that it will be  included and approved                                                               
in the STIP for its second or third phase.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  responded that once  the state starts a  project, if                                                               
the specific project  is not approved for  subsequent phases, the                                                               
state  must  reimburse the  funds.    The  state is  required  to                                                               
prepare  a   financial  plan,   escalate  it   to  the   year  of                                                               
construction, and to update the  project annually.  He added that                                                               
a  financial plan  had been  prepared for  the Ketchikan  Gravina                                                               
Island Access Project, but it showed  the need for a great amount                                                               
of state funding in order to complete the project.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:21:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH  asked  whether the  planning  process                                                               
also includes a  decision to "build or not build"  to give DOT&PF                                                               
an option to not move forward with a project.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded that the  National Environmental Policy Act                                                               
(NEPA)  process   provides  for   exemption  from   repayment  in                                                               
instances when  a project is not  built.  He highlighted  that he                                                               
has only  experienced one  instance of a  "no build"  decision in                                                               
his  career.   He  indicated  that  there  are many  reasons  for                                                               
project  delays,  and those  delays  are  allowed, none  of  that                                                               
violates the fundamental decision to  go forward on a project, so                                                               
long as  there is a good  faith effort by DOT&PF  to complete the                                                               
project.   He indicated  that DOT&PF  recently shut  down several                                                               
projects in order to avoid repayment of federal funds.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:23:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN gave a status  update on the Ketchikan Gravina Island                                                               
Access  Project and  indicated that  the record  of decision  had                                                               
been reached, and  that some road work and  right-of-way work had                                                               
been completed on the project.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:23:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  offered his understanding that  when there                                                               
are federal  funds involved and  a change is required,  it's also                                                               
necessary to prepare a STIP amendment.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded  yes, and that the  minimum processing time                                                               
for a STIP amendment  would be 90 days.  He  added that there are                                                               
some amendments  that can  occur within a  simpler set  of rules,                                                               
known as  an administrative modification.   Most  project changes                                                               
require the STIP amendment process, he noted.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN offered  another example of a  project that triggered                                                               
a STIP  amendment, in which a  small City of Nome  project funded                                                               
by  a federal  earmark required  a small  amount of  utility work                                                               
totaling  less  than  2 percent  of  the  project,  approximately                                                               
$50,000 of a  $3 million project.  DOT&PF  determined the utility                                                               
work  would delay  the project  by  an entire  year.   Therefore,                                                               
rather than  risk the STIP amendment,  the City of Nome  paid for                                                               
the cost out of city funds.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:26:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN, in  response  to  Representative Neuman,  explained                                                               
that the  Knik Arm  Crossing Project is  currently in  the public                                                               
review  process fore  the environmental  impact statement  [EIS],                                                               
followed  by  the  record  of  decision, which  is  part  of  the                                                               
National  Environmental  Policy  Act  review.    The  project  is                                                               
currently  out  for  public  review, but  he  predicted  it  will                                                               
require repayment if the project does  not move forward.  He gave                                                               
an  overview of  the  EIS  process in  which  there  is a  public                                                               
review, an  agency review,  a comment period,  and a  period when                                                               
then  the applicant  works with  the lead  agency, the  FHWA, who                                                               
ultimately controls the  decision.  The Knik Arm  Bridge and Toll                                                               
Authority  (KABATA) produces  the document,  but the  decision of                                                               
record is held by the FHWA.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:27:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked if funding  will need to  be repaid                                                               
on the Ketchikan Gravina Island Access Project.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN indicated that DOT&PF  will go back to the community,                                                               
review  the EIS,  and look  for  alternatives in  order to  avoid                                                               
repayment.   In  response to  a question,  he indicated  that one                                                               
option would be to look at the ferry system.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked for  figures for repayment,  if the                                                               
repayment would be necessary.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  responded that the  state would have to  repay about                                                               
$55 million.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:29:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:29 p.m. to 2:36 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY SCHEDULING                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:36:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be a presentation by the DOT&PF on AMHS scheduling.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:36:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HARDY,  Deputy Commissioner,  Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Department of Transportation &  Public Facilities (DOT&PF), began                                                               
by introducing other members from DOT&PF that were present.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY noted he supplied a  handout for reference, but that he                                                               
also had a  prepared statement.  He indicated  that AMHS schedule                                                               
is being  finalized later  than normal and  the schedule  will be                                                               
printed in the Milepost and  several other publications.  He said                                                             
he  is working  closely  with the  publications, and  anticipates                                                               
that  the  schedule will  be  available  on  DOT&PF web  site  by                                                               
January,  31,  2008.   Reservation  staff  is  currently  logging                                                               
requests,  he  noted.    He acknowledged  the  impacts  the  late                                                               
schedule  has  on  the  traveling   public,  the  travel  support                                                               
industry,  the travel  agents, tour  companies, and  hotels.   He                                                               
stated  that  next  year  AMHS   will  be  back  on  its  regular                                                               
timetable.  The schedule is late  this year, he explained, due to                                                               
major changes  in routes.   The AMHS  made the decision  that all                                                               
the vessels could not  run the same as last year  and as in prior                                                               
years.  Therefore,  a new schedule had to be  created, which is a                                                               
complex and time  consuming matter.  Two  primary factors entered                                                               
into  the  decision  to  take this  approach,  which  are  fiscal                                                               
responsibility  and operating  costs.   In fiscal  year (FY  07),                                                               
operating costs  increased 18 percent  with total costs  for AMHS                                                               
amounting to nearly $100 million per  year.  He said the schedule                                                               
was  changed  to reduce  operating  costs,  which are  escalating                                                               
dramatically.    The  general fund  level  is  approximately  $89                                                               
million in the current governor's  budget, which is only slightly                                                               
higher than  in FY 08.   The system needed to  make major changes                                                               
to    reach   fiscal    responsibility,   but    that   long-term                                                               
sustainability is AMHS's ultimate goal.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:41:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY  discussed  balancing   the  needs  of  Alaskans  with                                                               
Alaska's economy, and said that  the debate concerns whether AMHS                                                               
serves Alaskans  only or tourists  as well.   He opined  that the                                                               
proposed plan offers a balance between  the two.  He reviewed the                                                               
major changes.   He  indicated that  AMHS removed  the mainliner,                                                               
the motor  vessel (M/V) Malaspina,  from Bellingham where  it ran                                                               
at 55  percent capacity, but  the M/V Malaspina will  now provide                                                               
the  day  boat  service  in  Lynn Canal  The  M/V  Columbia  will                                                               
continue  to  provide  service to  Bellingham;  and  the  traffic                                                               
displaced  from   the  M/V   Malaspina  will   increase  capacity                                                               
utilization of  the M/V Columbia, except  for June and July.   He                                                               
opined  that  the  overflow  traffic  in  peak  season  would  be                                                               
diverted to Prince  Rupert instead of Bellingham.   In fact, AMHS                                                               
will focus its  marketing efforts on Prince Rupert.   The benefit                                                               
of moving the M/V Malaspina to Lynn  Canal will be to free up the                                                               
fast ferry,  the M/V  Fairweather, to  provide improved  day boat                                                               
service  to Sitka  and Petersburg.   The  M/V Kennicott  provides                                                               
service to the Aleutian  chain, but will be put on  a two week on                                                               
and two week off schedule as a cost savings measure.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:43:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  offered that most  of the questions  and comments                                                               
were generated when the proposed schedule was floated.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:44:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY,  in  response  to a  question  from  Chair  Johansen,                                                               
informed members  that as the  deputy commissioner of  DOT&PF, he                                                               
answers to Commissioner von Scheben, and serves only AMHS.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN recognized the Ketchikan  Borough Mayor, Mayor Joe                                                               
Williams.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:45:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN requested that Mr.  Hardy cover the areas that the                                                               
system covers.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY  responded that  AMHS serves  about 30  communities, of                                                               
which Prince  Rupert and Bellingham  are the  southernmost points                                                               
of  the  system.    The   mainline  route  continues  up  through                                                               
Southeast  Alaska  to Haines  and  Skagway  so travelers  can  go                                                               
through  Southeast  Alaska  and  into  the  Canadian  Alcan,  and                                                               
Interior  Alaska.   The cross  Gulf route  serves Prince  William                                                               
Sound,  Valdez, Whittier,  and Cordova  and traffic  can continue                                                               
into Southcentral Alaska.  The  Gulf route is used extensively by                                                               
the military bases of Eielson  Air Force Base and Fort Wainwright                                                               
in Fairbanks; and Ft. Richardson  and Elmendorf Air Force Base in                                                               
the  Anchorage  area, as  well  as  serving  the Coast  Guard  in                                                               
Kodiak.   The southwest route  serves Kodiak, Homer,  Port Lyons,                                                               
and continues down the Aleutians to Unalaska.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:47:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  asked if AMHS has  considered expansion to                                                               
serve river systems, such as the Yukon River.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY  reminded the committee that  Representative Salmon has                                                               
introduced a  bill to expand  the AMHS system to  include service                                                               
for the Arctic Yukon-Kuskokwim (AYK),  but the bill hasn't passed                                                               
yet.   The AMHS would complete  a study, if the  bill passes, but                                                               
at  this time  AMHS  does  not have  operating  funds to  provide                                                               
expanded  service.   He  noted,  in  response  to a  question  by                                                               
Representative  Salmon,  that  AMHS  has had  requests  from  two                                                               
communities, Perryville and Ouzinkie.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:50:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY, in response to  a question from Representative Doogan,                                                               
clarified that  the current request  in the governor's  budget is                                                               
$89 million  in general fund  monies, and another $12  million in                                                               
general funds will be used  for minor maintenance and overhaul of                                                               
the vessels.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY,  in further  response,  related  that AMHS  generates                                                               
revenue of  in the amount of  $49.3 million a year  and the funds                                                               
go into AMHS to operate the system.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked  if  the general  fund  and  ferry-                                                               
generated revenues are the AMHS budget.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY replied yes, so long  as the operating costs remain the                                                               
same, however,  he advised  that there  are other  variables that                                                               
add costs to the system,  such as vessel layups, vessels affected                                                               
by  capital  improvement  projects, escalating  fuel  costs,  and                                                               
negotiations  over  labor contracts.    The  AMHS hopes  to  have                                                               
signed three  labor contracts  this winter.   He noted  that AMHS                                                               
uses  a  three  percent  inflation  factor  when  developing  its                                                               
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:53:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  encouraged  AMHS   to  get  the  schedule                                                               
published and to try to increase ridership.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:53:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN inquired as to how the funding plan was derived.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY  answered that  it was a  combination of  determining a                                                               
reasonable  level of  service with  fiscal  considerations.   The                                                               
operating costs are escalating and  AMHS would like to stay under                                                               
a  cap of  $100  million  in general  fund  operating costs  when                                                               
preparing the FY 08-09 budget.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:54:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked if AMHS had  been given a specific figure to                                                               
keep the budget within.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY stated  no, but  added  that the  team evaluated  many                                                               
scenarios when developing AMHS budget.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY,   in  further  response,  said   that  AMHS  provided                                                               
information to the  administration, but was not  given a specific                                                               
dollar amount.   The AMHS  defended its  budget to the  Office of                                                               
Management & Budget through DOT&PF.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:56:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDREA DOLL,  Alaska State  Legislature, inquired                                                               
as to the historical percentage of cost versus revenue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY indicated  that he  did not  have the  history of  the                                                               
funding for AMHS,  but offered to provide it later.   However, he                                                               
related that  for every $1  generated in revenue, AMHS  spends $2                                                               
in general fund monies.   The aforementioned has escalated due to                                                               
fuel costs, labor, and general inflation.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:56:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL  opined that the [increased  operating costs]                                                               
were  affected by  the choice  of runs  and choices  made in  the                                                               
past.    She indicated  she  is  interested in  the  proportional                                                               
figure of cost versus revenue.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY confirmed  that the cost of the system  is based on the                                                               
vessels and routes selected.                                                                                                    
2:57:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   FAIRCLOUGH  inquired   as  to   the  number   of                                                               
passengers  served  last  year and  the  anticipated  numbers  of                                                               
passengers  for this  year in  the proposed  schedule.   She then                                                               
inquired as to how many vehicles  will be moved.  She related her                                                               
understanding that a  second vessel was added  in Bellingham, but                                                               
the two  vessels are running at  50 percent capacity.   And thus,                                                               
the number  of vehicles moved is  the same.  Therefore  it's more                                                               
efficient to  run one vessel  at full  capacity.  She  then asked                                                               
whether  AMHS   generates  the  most  revenue   from  passengers,                                                               
vehicles, or freight.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY  responded that revenue  is generated  from passengers,                                                               
vehicles, and freight.   Mr. Hardy, after  conferring with staff,                                                               
specified  that the  revenue is  evenly split  between passengers                                                               
and vehicles.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  recalled a hearing last  year in which                                                               
the DOT&PF  commissioner related  that more revenue  is generated                                                               
on the  vehicles than  the passengers.   She  inquired as  to the                                                               
impact of the new schedule will  have on the movement of freight,                                                               
vehicles, and  passengers.  She  said that she assumed  that with                                                               
anticipated  schedule reductions  there will  be a  corresponding                                                               
drop  in  revenue,  and  she  inquired as  to  whether  AMHS  has                                                               
forecasted the decrease  in revenue.  "Have  you anticipated that                                                               
in the  run so that you're  developing a model that's  more cost-                                                               
effective, if you're going to deter service", she asked.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSESN asked  to defer  that question  for the  sake of                                                               
time, and indicated his staff will compile questions.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:00:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH announced  that she  has had  multiple                                                               
inquiries from residents along  the coastal communities concerned                                                               
about how the  schedule change will affect their  lifestyle.  She                                                               
indicated that  she has access  to a  road system, and  asked how                                                               
many  of the  communities served  by  AMHS have  access to  other                                                               
modes of transportation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:01:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked whether  AMHS's budget request is for                                                               
the full commitment or is it a bare bones request.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY responded  that AMHS's budget request is  not a minimum                                                               
budget.   He  opined that  there  could be  brutal reductions  to                                                               
service.   He  then noted  that service  and operating  costs are                                                               
synonymous.   He  related that  three legislators  have requested                                                               
cost information if  the M/V Kennicott was not on  a two week on,                                                               
two  week off  schedule  for the  year.   He  said  that the  M/V                                                               
Kennicott  is the  most expensive  vessel to  run, ranging  about                                                               
$425,000 a week  to operate.  He noted that  the M/V Kennicott is                                                               
laid  up  most  of  the  winter to  obtain  cost  savings.    The                                                               
following  were examined:    1)  to run  the  M/V Kennicott  year                                                               
round, except for  layup and that would cost $4.1  million; 2) to                                                               
run  the  M/V  Kennicott  full-time during  the  M/V  Tustemena's                                                               
layout, and  to run  the M/V  Kennicott the  remaining time  on a                                                               
two-by-two schedule, which totals about $2.3 million.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:05:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  if  AMHS is  providing the  maximum                                                               
service.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY responded  that  AMHS is  not  providing full  service                                                               
under the current budget.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN requested further  information [on the cost                                                               
to provide full service].                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:06:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH asked whether  the Ocean Ranger Program                                                               
has  impacted AMHS's  ability  to retain  or  recruit pilots  for                                                               
AMHS.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:07:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  related his understanding  that the  [cruise ship                                                               
industry]  has contracted  out  with a  private  company to  fill                                                               
Ocean Ranger  positions.   Therefore, he  said he  didn't believe                                                               
AMHS has been impacted yet.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired as to  why the choice was made to                                                               
emphasize Prince  Rupert versus  Bellingham, especially  in light                                                               
of travel restrictions  to Canada and the weakening  value of the                                                               
dollar.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY said the decision to  select this scenario was based on                                                               
consensus   of  AMHS   management,  after   reviewing  ridership,                                                               
revenue,  percentage of  capacity being  utilized, and  operating                                                               
cost savings.   Furthermore, AMHS moved the  M/V Malaspina, which                                                               
was utilized  on the Bellingham  route, to Lynn Canal  to provide                                                               
additional service needed  and for cost savings.   With regard to                                                               
marketing studies, he deferred to staff.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:09:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  requested the  criteria used to  make the                                                               
decision.  He  indicated his specific interest  is the difference                                                               
in  passenger loads,  in order  to ensure  that a  sound business                                                               
decision was made.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked to  have this  information provided  to his                                                               
office for distribution.   He then asked if  this proposed Prince                                                               
Rupert schedule will be consistent over the upcoming few years.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY acknowledged the importance  of reliable schedules, and                                                               
therefore, AMHS  proposes that the  schedule will  remain "pretty                                                               
much the same."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:13:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN returned to the  change that directs folks through                                                               
Prince Rupert.  He inquired as  to the plan for the Prince Rupert                                                               
terminal and its connection to Ketchikan.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY acknowledged that there  are some deficiencies with the                                                               
Prince  Rupert  terminal,  and   some  repairs  have  been  made.                                                               
Although  the  dock  is  safe,   it  is  old  and  deteriorating.                                                               
Therefore, AMHS has had ongoing  discussions with the dock owners                                                               
to request  that they  repair the  terminal.   The AMHS  has also                                                               
sent a  letter to the  owners to outline concerns  about terminal                                                               
fees.   The 2030  plan indicates  that AMHS  will not  expand its                                                               
service, but  the southern  gateway shuttle  is in  the Southeast                                                               
Alaska Transportation Plan.   He stated that  until AMHS prepares                                                               
a master plan  for the system, there is not  a vessel replacement                                                               
plan which includes the southern gateway shuttle.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:16:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked for a status on the latest master plan.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY  advised that a  reimbursable services  agreement (RSA)                                                               
with  the University  of Alaska  Southeast Transportation  Center                                                               
was signed  in December.  A  team of consultants will  be working                                                               
on the master  plan with two deliverable dates.   The first phase                                                               
includes an  as-built condition, a  suite of alternatives,  and a                                                               
framework for  making recommendations with a  deliverable date of                                                               
October 2008.  The second phase is scheduled for October 2009.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:18:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  asked  whether  the  2030  plan  includes                                                               
upgrades for vessels or replacements.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY explained that he meant  to say that the 2030 plan says                                                               
there will  be no expansion  of service, but does  recognize that                                                               
AMHS  has an  aging fleet  and  that vessel  replacement will  be                                                               
required.   As yet,  AMHS is working  with the  administration to                                                               
find revenue sources.   He noted that of the  fleet's 11 vessels,                                                               
4 vessels are  45 years old; with a life  expectancy of 60 years,                                                               
the vessels will need replacement in 15 years.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:19:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  related his understanding that  items not                                                               
in the 2030  plan cannot be included in the  STIP.  Therefore, he                                                               
opined that the state won't be able to receive federal funding.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:20:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY  recalled  that  Mr.  Ottesen  mentioned  the  SHAKWAK                                                               
funding, which is  $10-25 million annually, will  no longer exist                                                               
as of  2009.  Federal  funding projections are expected  to level                                                               
off or  reduce.  With  regard to  STIP funding and  its interface                                                               
with the 2030 plan and AMHS, Mr. Hardy deferred to Mr. Ottesen.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON opined that  funding for projects that are                                                               
not 2030 plan or  STIP that no federal funds in  the STIP will be                                                               
used  for AMHS.   Therefore,  he  surmised that  some other  fund                                                               
source, perhaps the general fund, will have to be utilized.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN advised  the committee  should hold  off on  that                                                               
thread of  questioning until  Thursday when  Mr. Ottesen  is back                                                               
before the committee.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:22:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  referring to  the operating plan  asked if                                                               
during  the  summer the  M/V  Columbia  will  be the  only  ferry                                                               
sailing from Bellingham north once a week.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY responded yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DOOGAN  reviewed   the   proposed  AMHS   vessel                                                               
schedule.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:24:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if  the committee wanted  to get  into this                                                               
minutia, and said that the director  of AMHS is capable of taking                                                               
care of his business.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN related  that at the height  of the tourist                                                               
season,  AMHS  is pushing  folks  north  to  Prince Rupert.    He                                                               
inquired  as  to how  AMHS  knows  that  moving people  from  the                                                               
Bellingham  north route  to the  Prince Rupert  north route  will                                                               
work.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:25:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY related  that AMHS  will provide  marketing incentives                                                               
such as fare  reductions.  He opined, "We do  believe that we can                                                               
convince  the  overflow  traffic   from  Bellingham  into  Prince                                                               
Rupert, yes we do."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:26:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if AMHS  made an operational decision                                                               
to move the sailings to Prince  Rupert, and whether the switch is                                                               
a commercially viable  option.  He stated  that his understanding                                                               
is  that  AMHS does  not  have  any  information to  support  its                                                               
decision for the terminal location change.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY  reiterated that  AMHS  believes  it can  provide  the                                                               
appropriate incentives  for the overflow  traffic to go  north to                                                               
Prince Rupert.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:28:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  stressed  that this  is  not  reassuring,                                                               
either on the face of it,  or for the schedule remaining the same                                                               
for the next three years.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:28:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if  the management team  agreed on  the M/V                                                               
Kennicott's schedule too.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY confirmed the M/V  Kennicott's schedule was run through                                                               
the management team.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:29:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOLL referring  to review  figures on  the Prince                                                               
Rupert  run, informed  the committee  that the  embarking traffic                                                               
for Prince Rupert has gone down,  whereas for the same period the                                                               
embarking  traffic has  increased for  Bellingham.   Furthermore,                                                               
the  docking and  pier facilities  are  excellent in  Bellingham.                                                               
She inquired as to the layup  [and maintenance] costs for the M/V                                                               
Kennicott, since it is shut down for several weeks.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARDY  offered  to  provide  Representative  Doll  ridership                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked  Mr. Hardy to provide the costs  for the two                                                               
week layup of the M/V Kennicott.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:32:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON recalled  that  when he  first arrived  in                                                               
Juneau to  serve in the legislature  he was opposed to  the ferry                                                               
system.   However,  after  his  fourth session,  he  said he  now                                                               
supports  the  program  100  percent.    He  opined  he  did  not                                                               
understand the ongoing  fight for funding, especially  in lieu of                                                               
the projected  increase of revenues from  oil.  He asked  to hear                                                               
some positive aspects  of the program, and to see  a forecast and                                                               
plan  that was  not just  gloom and  doom.   He said  he supports                                                               
adequately funding  AMHS.  He  opined that the  communities, such                                                               
as Angoon need  this program funded because when it  is not fully                                                               
funded, the  reductions in service  cause hardships in  the rural                                                               
areas served by AMHS.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:35:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  offered his sense of  frustration too as it  is a                                                               
fight every year  to keep the system going.   He opined that AMHS                                                               
reaches   all   through   the  state,   "feeding"   people   into                                                               
Southcentral and the  Interior.  He noted that  a recent McDowell                                                               
Report related how many embark  from Bellingham and later show up                                                               
in  Anchorage, or  Fairbanks.   He highlighted  the transport  of                                                               
troops.   He  opined that  it is  important to  get people  moved                                                               
throughout the system, and in  the wintertime to provide services                                                               
from  Bellingham  to  the  Aleutian chain.    He  reiterated  his                                                               
support for having  a budget for AMHS that  adequately funds AMHS                                                               
so that the  legislature can review and appropriate  funding.  He                                                               
then expressed concerns with the  diversion to Prince Rupert, and                                                               
the lack of a proactive plan to fix the system.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:39:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON opined  that DOT&PF  budget seems  like a                                                               
piecemeal  budget, and  that the  department  is consistently  in                                                               
crisis  management   rather  than  providing   a  [comprehensive]                                                               
budget/plan for the legislature to address.   He added that it is                                                               
not just the DOT&PF, but all  departments.  He questioned what it                                                               
would cost  to provide service,  utilize equipment,  and maximize                                                               
use of routes.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:42:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DOOGAN   recalled   that   last   year,   DOT&PF                                                               
representatives    characterized    [AMHS]   as    a    Southeast                                                               
Transportation Plan  that focuses  on roads and  the ferry  as [a                                                               
shuttle]  to the  roads.   He questioned  whether that's  because                                                               
it's easier  to obtain federal  funding for  roads.  If  that's a                                                               
problem then the legislature should  make the decision whether to                                                               
pay for the [vessels].                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:46:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked if the  Point McKenzie ferry would be                                                               
part of AMHS's overall plan.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARDY responded no.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:46:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Transportation Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:47                                                                 
p.m.                                                                                                                            

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